Russia is already waging an undeclared war against the EU, not only through propaganda but also through overtly hostile actions such as sabotage, sabotage operations, attacks on critical infrastructure, and Europeans are finally beginning to realize this. Furthermore, despite the fact that the United States is an ally and strategic partner of the European Union, it would be much more reassuring for all countries if Europe were self-sufficient in defense and security, to rely less on the United States. And Europe understands this – it needs to be self-sufficient so that it does not have to worry every four years about who will come to power in America and what will happen to Europe.
This was discussed in a lengthy interview with the Guildhall news agency by Latvian MEP Reinis Pozņaks.
Mr. Pozņaks, there is a large discussion in the West, as well as here in Ukraine, about the so-called freezing of the conflict. But, as I see it, the demands of Putin’s administration to the Trump administration are the same as those we observed over the past three years towards the Biden administration. They want Ukraine to capitulate, for us to give up our sovereignty. We see proposals to at least partially accept Russia’s demands. How would you assess these proposals? And do you see any threats to Europe in connection with this?
— Well, not only for Europe, but for the whole world. I think everyone is now watching what is happening and will make certain conclusions. It all depends on how it ends. Of course, first of all, in my opinion, the position of Latvia and Europe is that everything must happen on Ukraine’s terms. And that is the main point.
But in reality, I think that in any case, whether it is war or peace, at least some of Russia’s demands will be met. This is bad news because it still proves that physical power works. That is, you can achieve anything with physical force. And the only rule that works is that the victors are never judged. And I think that many countries around the world, powerful countries, are now watching this situation, and how it ends will depend on their actions, considering their interests worldwide.
Therefore, I think this is not very good news, even if a deal is concluded in which Ukraine might even be satisfied. Because what will we do with all the war crimes and arrest warrants, with the sanctions, what will happen to them after that? Not to mention the fact that we all know that if Russia stays in its current position, it will rebuild its military power. And we will simply pass this problem on to our children. I don’t like that.
In my opinion, Russia is not really planning to end the war. Because today we see the actions of Russian intelligence agencies towards Europe, and it’s not just about election interference, propaganda, and disinformation. We see sabotage activities, attacks on critical infrastructure in the Baltic Sea. And this activity against Europe is only intensifying. Does the West have a sense that Russia is already waging an undeclared war against them?
At first, Western Europe saw this war as a conflict that happened by accident, a short-term conflict. Now they are beginning to understand that, in reality, all of this was being prepared by Russia for over 20 years. I would say that this whole situation and the war in Ukraine are just the first step. And fortunately for us (Europeans, — ed.), things have not gone very well for the Russians.
Now they (Europeans, — ed.) are starting to realize that, in essence, Russia has been creating the conditions (for the invasion of Ukraine, — ed.) for 20 years, raising a new generation of politicians in various countries, whom you can see now. There are many countries where some politicians advocate for peace and friendship with Russia. Their narratives are becoming very active. They also use social media with interesting strategies. But only now, in fact, is Europe starting to realize this and putting everything together. And they are beginning to understand that, in general, this is already a long-term war against Europe. And Ukraine is just a part of it.
Mr. Poznyaks, when I was preparing for our interview, I came across a very interesting comparison of expenditures. It concerns the costs of the USA, the UK, and other NATO and EU member countries for their campaign in Afghanistan. These expenses were significantly higher than the expenses for supporting Ukraine, even though Ukraine is engaged in such a large-scale war. We started our conversation with the global threats posed by this war, so why were the expenses for Afghanistan greater than for Ukraine, which is fighting a war with such a large country as Russia, and in the heart of Europe?
— Because, if I remember correctly, the case with Afghanistan was essentially the only instance when NATO’s Article 5 was invoked, and that was after the 9/11 attack on the United States. And yes, at that time, Article 5 was invoked — everyone went to Afghanistan to fight for America. So now it is very strange to hear from the American side that, you know, we might leave NATO. Some Latvians died in Afghanistan fighting for the United States. And I think that’s where the difference lies. It was a joint NATO operation.
This is logical, thank you for your answer. Let’s return to Ukraine, which, not being the aggressor, for some reason has to change its behavior and renounce its sovereignty. It is Russia that is the aggressor, and it is Russia that needs to be influenced, isn’t it? What other tools or levers does the West have to influence Russia that could be used to change the aggressive behavior of the Kremlin?
— First of all, of course, a large support for Ukraine. But the problem for Europe, and the reason why we really need America, is that we simply do not physically have enough weapons to send to you. We may have the money, but not the weapons. We are still not in a position, for example, to develop our military industry fast enough to produce enough weapons.
There are many things we could do better. We just don’t need to support the Russian economy with money. Because if you look, for example, at the «shadow fleet» that brings Russia a considerable income, one of the significant consumers of this product is the European Union. This «shadow fleet» goes to India and other countries, and then — it’s no longer Russian oil, but it is exported to the EU under the guise of Indian oil. We could stop this. For example, in Europe, publishers are required to know almost every tree that paper is made from. We could introduce a similar requirement for oil products, so that suppliers would have to prove whose oil it is.
I also see that tariffs on agricultural products and fertilizers from Russia are planned. In this way, Europe is taking steps, step by step, to increase sanctions. But, unfortunately, I have to admit that the strongest sanctions in these matters come from the United States. When they impose sanctions, it really works. Because the European Union is made up of 27 countries, and as we all know, there are a couple of «Kremlin friends» there. That’s why (the imposition of new sanctions, —ed.) takes more time. Because sometimes we have to find ways within the European Union to deal with these «Kremlin friends», how to bypass them, because they block many things and try to slow everything down.
But again, isn’t this an example of, in fact, Russia’s malicious behavior once again?
— Yes, of course. And also, the thing is that since we can’t develop our military industry quickly enough, we can help the Ukrainian military industry, at least by providing sufficient funding. I think there are several countries that are already doing this, for example, Denmark and some others, because you actually have long-standing traditions and great potential in military industry. You can do this much faster and more creatively. And this is also a good way of assistance — if we can’t develop something ourselves, we can support Ukraine, which is able to do it. So that’s another path.
Thank you for your support. It’s a win-win proposal. So, again, it’s not about Ukraine demanding something from our Western partners, but also benefiting the West. Returning to Europe, recently The Guardian reported that in 2024 the EU imported a record volume of Russian LNG, despite sanctions. How do you assess this issue?
— I think the problem was that it wasn’t possible to cut it all off immediately. Because we still need energy. I also believe that we should get rid of Russian gas as soon as today, and we will somehow survive. We will find solutions. But unfortunately, it’s harder to convince countries and people in the West that we might have to endure a couple of cold months. But this is very important. I think that at some point, we will come to this, and they will find ways to live without it. And I believe that this will happen quite soon. Conversations are already starting about how we should reduce LNG purchases and impose sanctions on it. So, more time is still needed. I’m also not a fan of buying LNG from Russia, because I am from Latvia, and I understand that it’s probably better to survive the winter without heating.
We hope that the U.S. administration will maintain a strong stance and even strengthen its position against the Kremlin alongside all of us. We hope for that. But again, you’re a politician. I’m a journalist. We are responsible to our societies for raising the issues that might come to the table. And let’s be honest, the situation in the U.S. is quite peculiar, and no one knows how it will turn out. So, given this uncertainty of the situation, what needs to change for the defense industry to develop in the EU in line with the threat from Russia?
— From this perspective, I think Trump is doing a very good job. He’s doing well. Because in the Baltics, Poland, and Finland, I think there is no doubt that we need to spend around 5% of GDP on security. But in Western Europe, again, the further you are from the borders, from Moscow, the less you want to spend on security. So, from this point of view, he is doing a good job. And what I see now is that Europe really understands that it needs to start taking action.
Yes, from this point of view, Trump is doing well.
— Despite the fact that America is our ally and strategic partner, I would still feel much more at ease if Europe were self-sufficient in the field of defense and security. So that we wouldn’t have to rely so much on the United States. And Europe understands this too — it’s much better to be stronger on your own than to worry every four years about who will come to power in America and what will happen to us. And this has changed, because in NATO, the greatest military force is the United States, and Europe is just a small part. This is wrong. And Trump is right on this. He says, «If you don’t want to spend money on yourselves to protect yourselves, why should we do it?»
Yes, that’s very logical. So, based on your personal feelings, has the West, I mean the political West, because we understand that it is very diverse, truly set itself the goal that Ukraine must win this war?
— Yes, as you already mentioned, the West is not homogeneous. Perhaps that’s the problem. For me, it’s absolutely clear that Ukraine must win. Now, I need to be careful with my words since I’m a politician, but in my opinion, as long as Russia remains as it is, we will always have problems. That’s what it comes down to. And a full victory for Ukraine could help us solve this problem. That doesn’t mean Ukraine must take Moscow. No, it just needs to win on its own territory. After that, I believe everything will fall into place.
Certainly. We are all very interested in a normal, democratic Russia, based on the principles of freedom and liberty. But without a military defeat on the battlefield, as you said, that is likely impossible…
— I’m just saying that historically, they have always remained unpunished for what they did, because they did not only good but also very bad things after World War II — with Ukraine, Latvia, and many small nations in the Soviet Union. And they were neither condemned nor punished for it. And this gives them the feeling that they will always win and never be punished. They can do whatever they want, and no one can stop them. And this is the entire problem. And I hope it won’t be like that anymore.
Thank you for mentioning this at the end of our conversation, because we all understand that if evil is not punished, it may return in an even worse form than it is now.
— Exactly. Because if you know that you won’t face consequences, you can do whatever you want.
Mr. Pozniaks, thank you very much for such an interesting conversation and for your sober assessment of these quite complicated and tangled events.
— Of course. Thank you. We will win together!
Taras Moklyak, Guildhall News Agency, exclusive.
Только главные новости в нашем Telegram, Facebook и GoogleNews!
Tweet