The European Union must be prepared for the fact that Russia will continue to attack Western countries. The invasion of Ukraine did not come out of nowhere. Russia’s aggression has been growing since Putin took power 25 years ago. Step by step, Putin is trying to «destabilize» other countries, attempting to interfere in their politics. And Ukraine is not alone in this — the same is happening in Moldova and Georgia. There are also constant cyberattacks on several European countries, attacks on infrastructure, and so on. So, under Putin, Russia has always been a very aggressive player and intends to continue in the same way. Sweden drew conclusions when Russia attacked Ukraine — the defense budget was significantly increased, and Sweden also joined NATO.
This was stated in a detailed interview with the Guildhall news agency by Swedish Member of Parliament, former Minister of Justice and Migration, Morgan Johansson.
Mr. Johansson, Sweden has supported Ukraine from the very first day of the war, and it is very important that you continue to do so. And thank you for that on behalf of all Ukrainians. So, my first question: after three years of war, we see that the Kremlin’s demands on the Trump administration are the same as those on the Biden administration. That is, Ukraine must capitulate and abandon its sovereignty. And at the same time, we are increasingly hearing from some Western politicians that, for the sake of peace, we need to partially accept Russia’s demands. What do you think about this? Do you believe that this is a good deal for Ukraine?
— No, I think this is a very worrying development when people, countries, or states try to push Ukraine toward a deal that could be very harmful for Ukraine. Other states should never decide when and how you should negotiate. You yourself should make that decision. And no one should push or threaten you to start negotiations or reach a deal.
We knew that the Trump administration might take a different approach than the previous president. But I think it is very important for the European Union to clearly express its support for Ukraine, and we must send a clear signal to the United States that they cannot make any deals over the heads of the Ukrainians. That would be a very big mistake.
Thank you for your support. We know that Ukraine is not the aggressor, so it should not change its behavior — it is Russia that needs to do so, right? What do you think, does the West have any tools to change the behavior of the aggressor that have not been used in the last three years? Perhaps something new that could be used to pressure Putin’s regime?
— Well, first of all, the attack on Ukraine did not come out of nowhere. I mean, we’ve been witnessing developments ever since Putin took over Russia 25 years ago. We see how he has been gradually trying to interfere in the politics of other countries. And Ukraine is not alone in this. I mean, Moldova, Georgia — exactly the same. They are also interfering in the politics of Western countries, supporting parties in Western European nations. We are also witnessing constant cyberattacks on several European countries. So, Russia under Putin has always been a very aggressive player. And they plan to continue in the same vein. The lesson for us is that we must keep strengthening our vigilance regarding the rest of the European Union and be ready for the fact that they will continue to try to attack us in various ways.
And you’re asking us if we have any other tools? Well, we need to be much more effective in our sanctions against the Kremlin. As you know, we have existing sanctions, but I think we can expand them even further to impact their economy. I’m from Sweden, where, in my opinion, even the sanctions that have been imposed are not as effective as they should be. For example, we still don’t have any prosecutions of Swedish companies for violating these sanctions. And I don’t think this happens because we don’t have companies that are not adhering to the sanctions. I believe we are not as effective as we should be in monitoring the enforcement of these sanctions. Therefore, we need to both expand the sanctions and make the ones we already have more effective.
You’re talking about companies that aren’t adhering to sanctions being unprosecuted? Does this require a specific law, or is it just a lack of political will?
— No, we do have legislation, but our prosecutors, our police system are not paying enough attention to it. My party is currently in opposition in Sweden, and we are pressing the Swedish government to address this issue and make the sanctions more effective. At the same time, we have very broad support in Swedish society, among all parties, regarding support for Ukraine and the introduction of more effective sanctions. So it’s not a major conflict with the government; we’re just pointing out that Sweden needs to perform better in this regard.
You mentioned Russia’s hybrid attacks. But we also see explosions at arms factories, the attempted assassination of Rheinmetall CEO Armin Papperger, and the cutting of communication cables in the Baltic Sea. It seems like this is not just hybrid warfare. Let me quote the latest research from the Royal United Services Institute (RUSI): «Russia’s undeclared war against the West is intensifying, using fear, destabilization, and covert operations to undermine NATO’s unity and Western resilience». Do you agree with RUSI’s view that Russia is waging an undeclared war against the West?
— I am not familiar with the specific details of this study, but we know that Russia conducts covert operations in the West. We have seen numerous killings of people who spoke out against Russia. Putin kills opposition within Russia, but he also kills Russians who managed to escape the country — his killers still manage to reach them. We can see this very clearly. And I am not at all surprised that more and more reports are emerging about how they are directly striking European interests in various ways.
Our Prime Minister (Ulf Kristersson, — ed.) recently said that Sweden is not at war, but we are not at peace either. So, right now, we are in a kind of grey zone. As you may have heard, there have also been issues in the Baltic Sea: ships have cut our internet cables, communication cables, both between Finland and Estonia and between Sweden and Latvia. Many of these ships are part of the so-called Russian «shadow fleet» — vessels that import oil and other goods from Russia. And while they are doing this, they also anchor on the sea floor and destroy our infrastructure.
For example, just recently, this past weekend, the Swedish Coast Guard boarded one of these ships that had destroyed one of our communication cables between Finland, Sweden, and Latvia. So, we are seeing not only, as I mentioned, cyberattacks, but also direct attacks (on Western countries, — ed.). Sometimes it’s difficult to understand where they are coming from. I mean, the ship I mentioned is owned by the Chinese, but it is operated by a Bulgarian company, and yet it left a Russian port. So, of course, it can be suspected that the Russians are behind this. The investigation is ongoing, and we have increased our presence both in the Baltic Sea countries and in NATO operations in the Baltic Sea to ensure that if something like this happens again, we will be able to respond quickly.
This is very reassuring, because here in Ukraine, it is clear to us that this is definitely an undeclared war against Western countries. Therefore, it was very interesting to hear your perspective as a representative of the Western world — do you feel that this is also a war? Yes, it’s not a full-scale invasion like ours, but it’s still a kind of war, isn’t it?
— Not exactly. After all, you are experiencing a real war. I mean, I was in Kyiv in the spring of 2023. And at that time, I also witnessed attacks. I was in a hotel room and was woken up in the middle of the night when drones and missiles appeared over Kyiv, and we had to go down to a shelter. So, this is the situation you have been living with for many years. It cannot be compared to what we are dealing with. But I want to say that from the Swedish side, we drew conclusions when Russia attacked Ukraine. For example, we significantly increased our defense budget and also joined NATO. This was a direct consequence of Russia’s attack on Ukraine.
Mr. Johansson, you mentioned the Russian «shadow fleet». We know that Russia’s ability to conduct war also depends on the revenues it generates, including for the Russian military budget. Do you think there are any measures, besides what you mentioned about having more ships in the Baltic Sea, that Western countries can take to counter the Russian «shadow fleet»?
— That’s true, and we all want to get rid of the «shadow fleet», but it’s difficult to do because maritime law states that, as long as they are in international waters, we do not have the right to board them, and so on. But I think we should discuss how to interpret these laws in order to more effectively counter Russia’s «shadow fleet». Because it’s not only about them funding the war with it, but it also creates an environmental threat for us. They transport oil on ships that, in general, are not suitable for sailing, with sailors coming from all corners of the world, who sometimes can’t even communicate with each other. There could be an owner from one country, a management company from another, and so on. So, I think we need to address this problem at the international level, to revise maritime law and prevent such ships from appearing. I hope that maybe the environmental threat will help do something about this very old Russian fleet.
I want to refer to another study — the recent report from The Guardian. It reports that in 2024, the European Union purchased a record amount of LNG from Russia. What can you say about this?
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